HomeMy WebLinkAbout01-29-2018 Mechanical Committee Meeting MECHANICAL COMMITTEE
OF CANTON CITY COUNCIL
Tuesday, January 29, 2018
6:00pm
Wallace Park
Donaldson Center
250 South Avenue D
Canton IL 61520
Aldermen in attendance: Aldermen, Chris Jump, John Lovell, Craig West, Angela Hale, Tad
Putrich, Angeila Lingenfelter, Justin Nelson
Aldermen Absent: Alderman Ryan Mayhew
Staff in attendance: Mayor Kent McDowell, Attorney Lane, City Clerk Diana Pavley Rock,
City Engineer Keith Plavec, WTP Superintendent Greg Pollitt, Street Superintendent Ron
Robinson, System Maintenance Superintendent Dash Wilson, Comptroller Lou Ann Armstrong
Audience -approximately 150 citizens
Media in attendance:The Daily Ledger,The Democrat, local television news
Video Services by: Joe Ginger
Mayor McDowell called the meeting to order at 6:00pm.
Public Safety&Traffic
Alderman Angela Hale, Chairman
Streets& Garbage
Alderman Justin Nelson, Chairman
Lake, Buildings&Grounds
Alderman Tad Putrich, Chairman
STATUS UPDATE
Mayor McDowell said he will allow anyone to speak at the meeting that would like to do so.
Alderman Putrich said he would like to strike item #5 (purchase agreement terms and
condition)
Alderman Putrich further explained that no determination has been made by the City regarding
the proposal from the Herman Brothers. The City is still discussing and research various items
regarding the lake development and the proposal.
LAKE DEVELOPMENT FUND AND LAKE RELATED FINANCES
Comptroller Lou Ann Armstrong explained that she would be discussing the lake finances as
well as the City's finances in general.
The Lake is a separate fund from the City's general fund. It has a separate bank account and is
individual in the accounting software. A report was generated that showed revenue and
expenses going back to 2014 to come up to an average. The lake fund consists of lot leases,
campground fees and boat permits. The average amount generated on these three items is
$18,000.00 over expenses for the last five years. The lake fund operates more like a business- it
purchases capital assets and then you can depreciate them. There has been a lot of confusion
about depreciation. Depreciation is not money in the bank.
The City has boat revenue, camping revenue, lot revenue and other misc revenues. The type of
expenses that get taken out of this include labor, equipment, utilities, supplies and services.
The labor is for the campground hostess. In 2014 there was a couple of improvements made
which included the installation of the playground and the pavilion. There is extra labor in 2014
for the extra work performed in preparation of these items.
There are expenses that are performed at the lake that is not charged to the lake fund. There is
no charge for sewer pickup, garbage pickup or administration fees.
The cash spent during 2014 was for the playground and the pavilion. In 2016 there was a dam
project. Most of the dam project was covered under a grant that was received by FEMA. Some
of this expenses was paid out from the campground fund. In 2017 there was a road repair.
The City receives its funds from two primary sources which is user fees and taxes. The water
department, lake development, cemetery and garbage department operates solely off of the
user fees. The City receives three primary sources of taxes which are property taxes, income
tax and sales tax. The City sets a tax levy for property taxes. Once this is determined the tax
levy is spread out over all of the residents. If there are fewer residents the individual property
taxes will be higher. The City reviewed census information going back to 1970. In 1970 Canton
had a population of 14,217. In 1980 the census was 14,262. In 1990 the census was 13922. In
2000 the census was 15288 The population increased due to the opening of the prison. In 2010
the census was 14704. The estimate for 2016 is 14397. The next census will be in 2020. The
reason the census numbers are important is because we receive sales tax based upon the
number of residents. As the number of residents decline, the amount of sales tax received is
less. It is important to the City that we try to maintain a population level that is not decreasing.
The taxes that we received based upon population include sales tax, motor fuel tax and
replacement tax. These are all primary revenue sources for the City.
The property tax is also an important source of revenue for the City. This is based upon the
number of occupied houses in the City. In 1970 there was 5381 houses. In 1980 it increased to
6109 houses. In 1990 there was 5907 houses. In 2000 there was 5677 houses. In 2010 there
was 5406 houses.
The number of houses in the City of Canton continue to go down. This ultimately has a large
impact on the amount paid for taxes.
The Mayor ran at the last election on a platform to not raise property taxes. The development
at the lake is one way that he has looked into to try to increase the tax base.
The total amount for the dam project was $221,000.00. The City received $168,000.00 by a
grant. The grant was received in two different installments. City engineer Keith Plavec
explained that the split was 80/20.
Alderman Chris Jump further discussed the lake fund as well as the dam project. Alderman
Jump said he would like to see $25,000.00 moved into the dam repair account so we are
complying with the statute. If any dam repairs are made in the future it will be very clear
where they are coming from.
DISCUSS AND CONSIDER THE LEASE TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR THE CAMPGROUND, MAIN
BOAT RAMP AND THE BEACH.
Alderman Putrich explained that he sat down with Attorney Lane with some suggestions that
will help better protect the City.
Attorney Lane said he would like to clarify some mis-information that he is hearing from the
community.
* A referendum is not allowable under this circumstance. Even if it was allowed the
residence at the lake could not vote since they are not in the City limits. We can't just
simply put something on the ballot and allow people to vote that doesn't qualify under
the law.
* The rules, rates, ordinances and control of the ramps also has incorrect information
being discussed in the community.
The bottom line is that this is still a work in progress. There is information that is going around
in the public that is simply false information.
The City will continue to work to get something that benefits everyone. The City is still
negotiating and revisions have been sent to the Herman Brothers Attorneys.
* The closure of one of the boat ramps is not part of the proposal, The City would still
retain control and keep this open. There is discussion about making it ADA compliant.
Attorney Lane further explained that a conflict of interest has to arise out of some type of
financial benefit. If an alderman was part of the Herman Brothers properties that would be a
conflict of interest. The question that previously came up regarding the aldermen that work at
Graham Hospital would be a conflict- is not true. This would not be a conflict of interest.
Further discussion took place about the process voting on the subject. Attorney Lane explained
that the Committee can discuss the proposal, but they would then need to refer it to the full
Council for a vote.
Alderman Lovell said he wanted to clarify a misconception regarding privatizing the lake. The
City is not looking at privatizing the lake. The initial proposal did include closing the road, but
the council did not like that part of the proposal so the counter offer would not allow for
closure of the road.
Alderman Putrich explained that the City has been working on a revision to the proposal with
ideas presented by the City. This was sent to the Herman Brothers attorneys for review as the
negotiations continue. The City is simply in a negotiation process with nothing final at this
point. The City is taking the residents recommendations into consideration during the
negotiation process to make this best for everyone.
A citizen made a comment about not being able to vote in the City since they do not reside
within the City limits. The residents can contact the chairman of the lake, building and grounds
committee (which is currently Tad Putrich) to voice their concerns or make any suggestions. If
the City does vote to approve the proposal the City could annex the properties at the lake into
the City limits which would then give the residents at the lake the ability to vote within the City.
A citizen asked what part of the west side of the lake will be public. Alderman Putrich said that
the Herman Brothers proposed to buy everything from the campground to the boat dock would
be private once they sell it. The public will have the area from the campground going east to
the dam.
Further discussion came up again about how the citizens could get a referendum placed on the
ballot. Attorney Lane explained again that it is not legal to place this on the ballot and would
simply not be allowed even if petitions are received.
Alderman Jump said the purpose of the meeting tonight is to hear the concerns and comments
from the public to be able to create a counter proposal to take to the Council floor for a vote.
Alderman Jump said one of the items discussed is the terms of the lease. Some have been
concerned with a 25 year lease, The Herman Brothers is proposing to put a significant
investment into the campground. Alderman Jump said he agrees that a 25 year lease would be
too long. One of the options being considered is having renewal terms. Alderman Jump said
that one thing that he would require is seeing an accounting performed on a monthly basis to
show all revenue received as well as the expenses from the leased property. The City would
need to make sure that money is being spent back at the campground as promised to do. If
they are not then they would be in default of any type of lease. The City will need to maintain
control over the rules, ordinances and rates. Any counter proposal would need to include these
items and be very clear that it remains in control of the City of Canton. The Herman Brothers
would not be able to set the fees or make any changes without the City's approval by this
counter proposal process. The City needs to keep this affordable to everyone and provide
anyone with a lower income the means to be able to utilize the lake. Alderman Jump said he
would like to see how revenue is spent by the Herman Brothers during the improvements.
Alderman Jump said he would like it be required to have local contractors for any construction
or improvements made by the Herman Brothers. Having local contractors do the work will
keep the money in our community. Alderman Jump would also like to see free public access
areas.
It is important to hear ideas from the community so a counter proposal can be made.
Further comments from citizens was made that they don't want the City to sell or lease the
Canton lake.
Alderman Jump expressed concerns about the low number of residential housing permits
issued by the City. It is crucial that the City look for ways to bring new housing to the
community to get property taxes.
The City had their first budget meeting last week and the City is starting the budget discussions
at a deficit of over$600,000.00. This City must look at new ways to generate revenue and have
some development.
Further comments was made by the public about developing different areas instead of the lake
area.
The city must be open minded and consider all options.
John Green and Tim Lindsey addressed the committee and the public regarding their concerns
with Youth acres. Youth Acres has been part of Canton lake since 1940 with thousands of youth
coming to the lake. Canton Lake is perfect for youth acres because of the amount of
undeveloped shore line for fishing, kayaking and having picnics. If the City allows a third party
company to come in and take over the lake they are concerned that it will affect Youth Acres.
There is not guarantee of the future of Youth Acres if this proposal is approved.
Eric Barnard addressed the committee and the public with his concerns over the proposal at the
lake. Eric said he has boated Canton Lake for many years. Eric thinks that the Council should
reject the proposal due to safety issues at the lake with boating and water skiing. The lake the
size of Canton having additional boats brought in would make the lake unsafe. Allowing more
docks in the lake will be another hazard for people. Eric further explained that he believes the
lot sizes being proposed by the Herman Brothers is not practical, nor what the City was asking
for.
Another citizen addressed the committee and the public and explained that he is against the
proposal. The lake should be a recreational area instead of a place where more houses are
built.
DISCUSS AND CONSIDER LAKE FISHERY MANAGEMENT AND OPTIONS
Nate Herman and Chad Herman addressed the committee and the public regarding their
proposal. Nate and Chad said they have been listening to the Council as well as the community
on what everyone is wanting to help the community. Their job is managing recreational lakes
and ponds for people across the United States. They provide consultations for municipalities
with lakes similar to Canton Lakes. They speak at campground association meeting about
revitalizing their property for recreational use. They would be able to help the community to
better utilize Canton Lake. They hear the concerns from the community. The Herman's want to
help Youth Acres and any organization in the area. The Herman Brothers purchased the Goose
Ranch in 2014 and renovated it. People are concerned that they will make another Goose
Ranch, but it will not be the same. The Herman's explained that if they could utilize boat sticker
revenue to come up with the funds it would help bridge the gap to help with what the lake
actually needs.
Canton Lake has an incredible opportunity to be the best fishery in the State of Illinois. There
are species of fish that do not naturally reproduce in the lake, but they could help better
maintain fish that would thrive. The Herman Brothers would want to have a voice with the lake
committee and the IDNR to help with the lake.
Chad Herman explained that their goal was with the proposal is to have a calibration with the
City that would be a win-win for everyone. They want to be very honest and upfront and work
with the City on what everyone needs. The proposal is 44 lots on 25 acres which is a very
generous lot size. This is very doable in this area. The Herman's have read the counter
proposal and is continuing to work together to come up with a plan that works for everyone.
The Herman's invite anyone to contact them with questions or concerns. Nate Herman
explained that with the previous development they find they can generate more bald eagles.
They love rainbow trout and they would plan on having rainbow trout at the lake that would
bring in more eagles that what is currently at the lake. The Herman Brothers has raised over
$150,000 at Goose Ranch for Camp Big Sky and they have handicapped tournaments. The
Herman Brothers would continue to work with the community in having a scholarship for
families less fortunate. The Herman Brothers would also like to create handicapped accessible
fishing docks that would be open to the public at all times. The Herman Family said they are
also discussing with the council to have an area open to the public.
The Herman Brothers is wanting to have a nature trail at the lake area.
The Herman Brothers further explained that they would not be interested in 24 acre lots
instead of the 44 lots. Chad Herman said he would not consider that as an option. The cost
would need to be so high for the homeowners he does not believe they would sell.
Alderman lump asked if the Herman Brothers have considered sewer instead of septic for the
lots. The sewer is located 4400 feet away from boat dock road. The cost estimates received
have been approximately 1.1 million dollars to bring the sewer line in and facilitate to the lots
being proposed. The cost for the septic system would be approximately 1/2 million dollars for
the lots. It does not make financial sense to bring the sewer line in as a developer unless the
City would want to assist with the cost.
The 44 septic systems is what is being recommended and they will be tested every three to five
years. These would all be brought up to the current codes that changed in 2015. The current
codes are very strict on the types of septic systems that can be put in and how close they have
to be from the lake and how the percolate into the soil. The typical life of a septic system is 20-
25 years. Old systems are dug up and new systems are put in. The Herman Brothers explained
that their covenance would require them to dig up the old septic system and put in a new
septic system right in the same spot.
The Herman Brothers stated that they have built 4-5 homes in the Canton area. They have also
built lodges in the area which would bring this total up to 10. They do not build any homes or
lodges until they are sold. Chad further explained that he has personally designed and built and
sold over 300 homes during his career. The average cost of the homes built and sold is
approximately 1/2 million dollars.
There is currently a trend for less square footage and more amenities. These homes will not be
as large as what was built in the last 10 years. The homes will be approximately 2000 square
feet as an average. Some of the homes may be larger that this number while others may be
smaller.
Some of the lots are 1 acre and some are 2 acres so the 44 lots could be built on the proposed
lots.
A citizen wanted to know if the 44 lots are sold and homes are built, where would the proposed
nature trails and public spaces be located. Chad explained that the City of Canton owns from
where they are proposing all the way around the lake to Youth Acres. All of this land is
undeveloped. There is approximately 431 acres of this land available for public use. There
could be amazing amenities and nature trails and fishing areas in these spots for the public.
The City also discussed the motorcycle track area for a nature trail.
The proposal would include parking areas off of the streets for the access. This would very
similar to the way the parking is at Wildlife Prairie Park.
The 44 lot subdivision would pay $30.00 per month of$360.00 per year to go back into the lake
and helping with fish stocking.
The Herman Brothers has not performed an actual study of Canton lake to see how many boats
could be on the lake and maintain safety, but this is what they do as a profession. The Herman
Brothers help recreational lakes figure out how to best utilize their resources on how they use
the lake. This will be not a scenario where the Herman Brothers will be making this decision,
but will have recommendations and discussions with the lake committee to see how to best
utilize the lake safely. Oak Run has over 2000 lots and is a 680 acre lake. Lake Thunderbird
has a 150 acre lake and has 529 lots on it. The utilization will be very much less than these two
lake studies.
A citizen asked if the Herman Brothers took into consideration the sediment issues on the north
side of the lake. Chad explained that Nate checked all of the depths of the lake along the
entire shoreline. They are aware of the sediment issues on the north side. The no wake area is
from the Campground all the way to the dam.
Chad said that they nor the City could not ever please everyone, but it's about trying to please
the most people and getting the most use out of the entire lake for everyone. Chad stated that
he is very confident that they can work with the City and come up with the best solution that
will please the most people.
The Herman's said they are asking for a voice with the lake committee to help come up with
these ideas.
The Herman Brothers would have a homeowners association. Once the subdivision is
developed, the homeowners subdivision then takes over their job of approving the homes that
come in. This would allow the people that are actually living there to approve the next homes
that are being built. The Herman Brothers explained that they would love the opportunity to
work with the residents on the other side of the lake by utilizing Tad Putrich and the lake
committee to let everyone have a voice and come up with ideas on how to best utilize the lake.
The Herman Brothers has the ability to help with the sediment in the north side of the lake, but
the question is addressing the cost. Dredging is not ever a cost effective way. The only cost
effective way would be to lower the lake and to remove the sediment. This would cost over a
million dollars to do this. Dredging would be 2-3 times this amount. The best use is to make
sure that it is marked and people are aware of it. The boats would need to stay away from this
area. It does create kayaking opportunities.
The Herman Brothers would not deem if the City is unsafe and turn people away. The City
Council and the lake committee would need to do this. The Herman Brothers suggestion is to
regulate nonresident rates higher if the lake gets too busy.
Alderman Putrich encouraged anyone that has any further questions to contact their aldermen
or himself as the lake committee chair.
Public Works, Water&Sewer
Alderman Angeila Lingenfelter, Chairman
ADJOURNMENT
Motion and second were made by Alderman Hale/Lingenfelter to adjourn.
The motion carried.
Diana Pavley Rock
City Clerk/HR